Alot has been going on this year for Nintendo’s mythic Elf :  the release of The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and the 25th anniversary of the franchise, symphonic concerts of Zelda’s memorable music have been held around the world and an ad campaign starring Robin Williams (with his cute daughter).  On the sidelines of these noisy celebrations, it’s in a quiet London hotel room that we met with Eiji Aonuma, game-director since Ocarina of Time, and Koji Kondo, the legendary composer behind Mario… and Zelda’s music. Exchanging game design secrets with the most gifted of Shigeru Miyamoto’s heirs and discussing interactive music with the guy who wrote the most famous gaming tunes ever are the kind of moments we wouldn’t trade for anything in the world. It’s never too late for the perfect gift.

Crédit : Raphael Farfart / Eiji Aonuma et Koji Kondo

For 25 years, the story of  kind of  never-ending reboot. Where do you find the inspiration to tell a new story every time?

Eiji Aonuma: It comes from the way we work. We don’t starting with narrative content to be integrated into the story at all costs or ready-to-use gaming structures, but rather we always try to think in terms of new gameplay elements. We work hard on how to integrate new ideas of gameplay, how to develop them, operate them and how to make the best of them. This does not happen overnight, and it’s truly this kind of research and experiments that take the most time when designing a game like Zelda.

As with any heroic fantasy-inspired work, Zelda seems to rely on classic medieval European tales. How can you explain the interest of Japanese designers for a cultural background that is so different from their own?

Eiji Aonuma : In Japan we also experienced a time in our history close to the European Middle Ages, with the same images of vast plains topped by stone castles that ultimately became battlefields. But perhaps the style of European castles lends itself more to legends and fantasy than Japanese castles. Similarly, Link’s sword – or swords – doesn’t look Japanese, because Japanese blades use only one of the two sides. It actually echoes the romantic medieval literature, but with each new episode, we try to improve it by adding some fancy elements. It’s true that there are many medieval western inspired elements in Zelda, but you will also find references to Asia, Middle East and elsewhere. The idea is not really to use European culture in particular but essentially to create a world that happens to fascinate the player.

Skyward Sword unfolds a particular aesthetic at times, recalling the paintings of Monet and Cezanne. Where did this idea comes from?

Eiji Aonuma: As we were thinking about the different graphic styles that we could use, one of our technical teams have been just finished developing a visual effect that can be applied to the background scenery and which consist of blurring the image by mixing colors. When Shigeru Miyamoto saw our integration tests in the game, he said “hey, it looks like impressionist paintings”. And we ended up adopting it.

You also changed the traditional Zelda formula, especially the way the dungeons work…

Eiji Aonuma: There are two aspects. First, you will now find savepoints right inside dungeons. Before, when you had to leave a dungeon or turn off the console, recovered objects were saved but progression inside the dungeon was lost, which forced you to start again from the entrance. The other aspect is that traditionally, Zelda is built around an overworld that contains few puzzles and several dungeons containing nearly all the puzzles and action. In Skyward Sword, we decided that the overworld should also welcome puzzles. Of course, they are different in their design, and some only work in the areas of influence of each dungeon, but this time there are much more things to do in the overworld, you may even meet some boss.

By the way, what is your favorite dungeon?

Eiji Aonuma: Oh, my favorite dungeon ever, you may have guessed it already, is the Water Temple of Ocarina of Time.

I knew it. This temple was a nightmare for players. You must have spend hundreds of hours to test all the mecanisms, right?

Eiji Aonuma: Hundreds of hours, mhhh … maybe not (laughs). Some parts were more complex than others since we had to fix several contradictions, but overall the debug phase did not take as much time as you may think. In fact, the structure of the dungeon is very straightforward, but progress is hampered by water management and its three levels of immersion, which is what may have put off some players and made them feeling a bit lost. That said, my nine year old son was able to finish it trough his first run, so maybe this temple is not that nightmarish after all!

Skyward Sword also introduces some role-playing-type elements, such as the ability to improve the equipment. Was it intented to appeal more to hardcore gamers?

Eiji Aonuma: We have not really thought about getting closer to classic role-playing games, actually we even got rid of the magic meter, that we tought was useless this time, and replaced it with a stamina gauge, that is fully functional from the beginning. The idea was to reproduce some kind of real-world physical limitations in the game, and ensure that Link was out of breath after running, as it would be the case in real life. Regarding the upgrades that are now available for the outfit, shield, sword and other objects, they act essentially as another reason to deeply explore the world and engage in new quests.

Koji Kondo, you often say that your main musical influences are rock, classical, and jazz. How does they interfere with your work on game music?

Koji Kondo: I listen to many different styles but am not limited to one genre or another. When I compose, my principal goal is to come up with the type of music that is best suited to the situation. This may be a genre I am already familiar with, but sometimes I might think “hey, this style may work” even if I don’t know the style very well. In these cases, I start studying by listening to several samples, and then adapt it to the game sequence.

What is most important thing in game music?

Koji Kondo: My main focus is on the melody, since it’s what remains the most into the player’s memory. I also create more complex music when we need it, it really depends on the context. In the movie industry, the soundtrack is used to convey emotions and atmospheres to a situation. Same goes for games, but on top of that, we must address other needs, such as to ensure that music reacts to the player’s actions in real-time. In the game industry, what we do is interactive music.

This is the first Zelda game to include in-game orchestral music. Did you finally surrender upon popular request ?

Koji Kondo: The reason we did not use an orchestra before is because we had no way to adapt the live performance to the pace of the game: in an orchestra, the musicians play at one’s own pace, guided by the music director, which can be quite different from the game’s rhythm. Then, we had to find tips and tricks to make the music be perfectly suited to the game’s rhythm, for example by using a conductor helping to synchronize, which led us to record our first fully orchestral soundtrack for Super Mario Galaxy. At Nintendo, we will certainly never use orchestral music in all games, but we will continue to integrate it in games and scenes for which we think it really makes sense.

What was the last game you played… well, if you still have some time left to play?

Eiji Aonuma: Don’t repeat it it to our PR manager (Note : He left the room to get some refreshments, we’re safe), but I currently spend time on WINtA, an iPhone rythm-based music application created by Matsuura-San (Parappa the Rapper) that I play with my son.

Koji Kondo: Pokemon Typing (Note: a Nintendo DS software to improve your ability to type fast on the keyboard…yes that’s an odd one).

And the last music artist you listened to?

Koji Kondo: Aisha, a Japanese soul music singer.

Eiji Aonuma: Quasimode, a Japanese jazz band focused on percussions. They even play Congas!

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword by Nintendo, for Wii. Available now.

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